the fact is that right to work states have worse education. they have worse performance, they have higher unemployment. the facts just don't back the governor up. this is a governor that prides himself on having the facts. >> uaw president bob king blamed the koch brothers for helping ram through this legislation. do you believe that? what role did the koch brothers, if any play in all of this? >> it's hard for me to know. i think there is a lot of big money involved. i see this prosperity america. i think that's their outfit. i see equipment and tents and so on. how much big money is flowing around, i don't know. i think they're all over. ed, you have been on this before. we have to get the big corporate money out of politics. this is disgusting. this is a bastardization of our democracy that is taking place. i tell you, democracy is under attack. we have to get the big corporate money out. it's disgusting to think the koch brothers' long arm and big money can make it happen. if it can happen in michigan, it can happen anywhere. working peopl